I think it is quite obvious by the style of this composition that it is Bach’s. What is your personal opinion ?
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i think that his son or cousin could have written it, and js bach just..”edited” it…..that is wat i think….hope it helps~!
Hi! There is some controversy about the authorship. This is based on extensive study of Bach’s typical writing style in comparison to the Toccata and Fugue, which exhibits several unusual writing techniques normally associated with later composers. But there are just as many who insist that Bach, being the creative genius that he was, did write this piece. We don’t have a manuscript in Bach’s handwriting, so that is another problem.
Regardless, it is a mighty and wonderful piece. I myself do think it was written by him. Perhaps there were some additions later on, but it doesn’t take away from the work’s majesty.
We have similar issues with other works, such as Mozart’s Clarinet Concerto in A. No manuscript survives and even now, tho experts think they know what notes were originally written for basset clarinet, many still play it on A Clarinet. It’s one of Mozart’s best either way.
So I agree with you in your assessment.
I am so impressed to meet a true Bach scholar who can identify whether a work is by Bach just by listening to it.
I think it is brave of you to assert this in the face of the work of Peter Williams -who cites:
– The lack of any autograph or score of this piece in Bach’s hand
– The use of parallel octaves in the opening statement of the toccata theme (which is unique Bach’s output and the period in which the piece was supposedly written)
— fugal answers in the subdominant — not unique but EXTREMELY rare
– use of the solo pedal in a statement of the fugue subject — once again, unique
– the lack of Bach’s usual rich and chromatic harmonic pallet.
– and a closing minor plagal cadence — i.i no “tierce de piccardy”
Now a good many fellow Bach scholars concur with William’s findings, so I think you should go to them and give them a piece of your mind, by gum. They obviously do not have your expertise on the subject.
Cheers,
Glinzek
I’d say the style directly contradicts it being written by Bach… I’m going to be a rebel and say I think it wasn’t actually composed by him.
If you can find it, have a listen to his other (lesser-known) ‘Dorian’ Toccata and Fugue in d minor. Now THAT’S bona fide Bach!
Personal opinion: I think it probably is not his original work, though I do believe that he had a strong hand in crafting it to it’s final state. Bach did all sorts of harmonization, editing and and recasting of other peoples’ themes. It may or may not have been a piece for concert. The introduction playing the same figure thrice over the range of the instrument makes me wonder if it wasn’t a “show off” kind of work that demonstrated the power of the organ in a wonderful acoustic space.
… Tomaskerk in Leipzig was almost certainly NOT that space.
I took your challenge and listened to the Dorian Toccata and Fugue. While I was at it, I listened to the C major Toccata, Adagio, and Fugue. My most significant observation was that neither of the other toccatas were recitatives comprised of unrelated elements. I’m not saying that such a form is bad–on the contrary, the second movement of the Franck violin sonata is a lovely example–I’m merely saying that such a form might be unusual for Bach.
You share a lot of interesting facts, and I don’t doubt that they are accurate. However, you bundled up those facts with needless sarcasm. Lofo is now in an uncomfortable dilemma. He can reject your package in order to reject your sarcasm, or he can accept your package, but only while paying the cost of unnecessary pain.
It is wonderful that you are smart, but it would be even more wonderful if you could be smart without being smart aleck.
I honestly don’t know. We have seen many elements which are unusual for Bach, but composers of Bach’s stature do a lot of things which are unusual for themselves.
Funny that nobody has commented on the “bariolage” in both the toccata and fugue. This term refers to a series of rapid notes, every other one of which is the same. This is a Baroque idiom which began with music written for the violin. When a violinist alternates finger work on one string with no fingers on a neighboring string, it creates an amusing effect. Bach wrote bariolage passages not only in his violin works, but in his works for other instruments also. The C major fugue from the aforementioned C major toccata, adagio, and fugue is another example.
Schweitzer thought that Bach was quite a proficient violinist. One of Schweitzer’s arguments is that most of Bach’s music is violinistic, not just in his violin music. I play the violin, so I know Schweitzer was right.
However, another of Schweitzer’s arguments was an inductive argument: that many other organists of Bach’s time were violinists also. So there is only one confident answer I can give you: that the mighty 565 was written either by Bach or by another double threat man.
Quite likely…it just doesn’t sound right